chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

So we went home really and I sort of had to think about it all night. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor, midwife or hospital immediately. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. But other than that everything was fine. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. But you know I knew we had, we had to make a decision that was right for the baby as well. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. So I was, they couldn't actually finish the scan then, the baby was moving around too much, so they couldn't scan the heart and the stomach. And so we had to go out a couple of times, [wife] had to walk around, and she had a drink of water, which is supposed to sort of change things inside, or help the baby turn around or something because the sonographer couldn't get the measurements she wanted. Entering the labour ward, I waited for someone to say, "Go home, you are 16 weeks too early." Could you tell? I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. And I went for, I went for a normal 12-week scan, at my local hospital and everything, they said everything was fine, there was no problem. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. I had to wait yet another sleepless night. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. If you are offered further tests, you will be given more information about them so that you can decide whether or not you want to have them. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. On the third day, we got a phone call. It was all going wrong and I wanted to get as far away from the hospital as possible. I couldn't bear to see the baby and asked the midwife to take him away immediately. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. Slightly marked from our peers. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. We didn't feel we could tell anyone what was happening. And it was Christmas Eve and at the time I didn't think, the sonographer did spend a little bit of time scanning us and queried my dates several times and then explained that she couldn't quite see the baby's heart properly and would we come back in a couple of days? Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. I had to take a tablet there and then, under the supervision of a nurse, to end the pregnancy. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. Our week-by-week PREGNANCY emails are a must for parents-to-be. All my plans were beginning to fall down. The appointment usually takes around 30 minutes. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Thanks girls, it's amazing how protected our babies are in there isn't it?! I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. You can change your cookie settings at any time. And attribute some blame to them. 1. We'd sort of put those discussions to the back of our mind, and then all of a sudden there are other abnormalities so yeah it was a bit a bit of a shocker [laughs]. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. And, it does not occur to you in the slightest. So it was quite common, this is what happens. Never being able to look after himself. Then I picked myself up. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. We had the 20 week scan yesterday and got some devastating news. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. But my brain had been given a train of thought that was impossible to stop. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. And for that whole time, my partner and I were both crying uncontrollably. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . I used to think the feeling of your baby kicking inside you and the sight of a foot poking against your skin were the most fantastic things in the world. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). No, we really didn't, with hindsight we probably should have, but not at all, it never occurred to us to be worried about it. I was willing the results to be normal. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. I pray it's just her heart but I can't see anything else is wrong as I have been scanned by a consultant since I was 14 weeks and every time he has said everything looks okay and she is growing consistently. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. Do you have any thoughts about that? For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. But now that's changed. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. Or, at the very least, heart problems. We were denying him his life. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. And I knew there was no way out. We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. BabyCenter. Seated in the antenatal clinic with lots of expectant mothers with baby bumps. But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. Some people want to find out if their baby has one of the 11 conditions and some do not. I didn't want to be convincing him to agree with me. It was a bit worrying but on the plus side I got an extra couple of scans and an extra couple of pictures. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . I was saving my child from pain and suffering. When I told him what had happened, he refused to believe anything was wrong and said he'd sort it out when he came home. The consultant had said it wouldn't be like a normal delivery. I am a darker, harder version of myself. I thought I was going to burst into tears. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. [Husband] couldn't make it. Sam followed and I broke down. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. We were convinced everything would be OK. No sort of questions about, 'Do you want to know whether it's a boy or a girl?' That was the first time I had heard him cry. Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. Being deeply unhappy and kind to others at the same time is nigh on impossible. This article was amended on 24 November 2015 to anonymise the writer. It sounds crazy, but I just knew. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. I just feel very unlucky. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. I can't remember the exact words but she said, 'There might be some fatal problems with your baby'. The thing that I have a very strong memory of is this child's face in amazing detail. Last reviewed July 2017. And I, my husband and I both ran our own business at the time so we were desperate to get back and do some work, and things were going really well, so.. . I didn't have a clue. So we went back the day after Boxing Day, the 27th, and the consultant greeted us, which made my alarm bells go, and she started scanning us and I think her lines were, 'What concerns me about this baby is that they've got a diaphragmatic hernia, which has meant that part of the stomach of the baby was in its chest cavity.'. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. He sounded like a wild animal in pain, deep pain. Has anyone been told the wrong sex at 20 week scan? If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". I came back probably about 17 weeks pregnant and had the anomaly scan at 20 weeks and like most people expected everything to be fine and to come away with a lovely picture but unfortunately that isn't what happened. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. I didn't think my instincts were worth much. You have rejected additional cookies. For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. In the case of a suspected abnormality, women should be seen for a second opinion by an expert in fetal ultrasound, such as a fetal medicine specialist. My partner tried to remain calm, and at my request rang my mum. And as soon as she said those words, both of us were like, 'Well what's wrong?'. I had my little leaflet, printed off leaflet about choroid plexus cysts. Baby loss stories We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". How common is it for 2nd baby to come early..? My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. In some very serious rare cases, where no treatment is possible, the baby will die soon after it is born or during pregnancy. And I felt like a murderer. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. And at that, I let out a scream I think. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. And before they gave me any of the results she asked a colleague to come and told me she wanted to check something, with a colleague, and by then I was getting very concerned because I'd never had that happen before. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. For example, you may be offered further tests that have a risk of miscarriage. So it was just, we were coming up to the 20-week scan and I was just getting more relaxed, just actually starting to look at maybe baby catalogues or, you know, going down the baby aisle at the shops, which I'd always avoided. There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. . I faced another internal scan where I began to feel helpless and alone. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. Purpose of screening. The doctor wanted to do another blood test to confirm a significant drop in my hormone levels. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). I was then told yet again bad news. I wanted to let nature take its course. My son's congenital heart defect was detected at the 20 week scan and he had 2 other markers, no . The doctor didn't come. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. Nights were impossible. He felt strong and fit and healthy. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. Wed like to set additional cookies to understand how you use GOV.UK, remember your settings and improve government services. They would then re-test me in two days time. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. This was a ray of hope for us. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here), tbh, they never give you good news at scans. Went back a week later for the scan and, you were with me for this one, weren't you? This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. Find more information and details of support groups on NHS.UK. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. But no. Only this time, no cry came. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. Somehow, I walked from the sofa up to the bathroom and told my partner. There was an extra digit on one of the hands. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). The hardest thing I have ever done. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. It was just a few little things like the kidneys were hard to find, and the stomach was hard to find, but that might be because it wasn't filled with fluid. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? 10/03/2021 16:13, @Cormoransjacket We didn't name him. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. I then had to wait in the room along with many other patients for an hour so they could observe me. Can you remember that minute. After she had taken all the measurements, the sonographer told us that she was concerned with the length of the baby's limbs in relation to the head. The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. He looked fine. I was told they needed to do a blood test to get a bench mark of my hormone levels. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. Not marginalised into being a victim. Likely to have serious medical problems all his life. Picture every packed football staduim up and down the country - all healthy pregnancies and births. This might be uncomfortable. Just doing it. No one else felt him kick. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. So I suppose from that aspect, mind you having not been told that or sitting there, I wouldn't have thought necessarily that was odd. Some stories I hear are amazing! Three midwives came and went. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. The blood test confirmed it was twins. A black and white picture of your baby will then be seen on the ultrasound screen. And that, that was when things where it started going a bit wrong. And so we talked about it euphemistically, never saying the word "research". I was another one who did get bad news at the 20 week scan. And I'm glad I did and she's glad she didn't. The nursery I had selected for our two-year-old son; my maternity leave; the bunk beds; the summer holiday suitable for a newborn baby. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. The consultant showed us the letter with our result on and, yes, there were the words "Down's syndrome". I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. My partner spent the weekend trying to convince me that things were OK. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. Thankfully I was met by an amazing sonographer, she was compassionate and understanding. As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. Read full disclaimer. Many people were deeply affected by their experiences of the 20-week and subsequent specialist scans. So we hid in our house. The ultimate betrayal. Has anyone been told the sex incorrectly at their 20 week scan? And they took us out of the scanning room, into a more quiet room while they typed up the report. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. The decision to terminate the pregnancy was my partner's and mine. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. It will take only 2 minutes to fill in. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. After the triple test you stop thinking, you stop thinking that anything can go wrong. Had 34wk scan last week and all is well - of all the babies found to have a two vessel cord, was told less than 6% experience any growth issues etc. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). So we went home, me to rest in an attempt to prevent miscarriage, my partner to reassure us both. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. Can you describe the difference between the scan at this later stage in a pregnancy? My belly was growing and I was feeling great. And even at that early stage it was beginning to sink in that there was something really not right. For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. And I wish that I'd been told at that point, that somebody had actually turned round to me and said, 'Look, I'm sorry, but I think there's something very wrong. And everybody knows and everything is right. Tears started to roll down my face. The same rush of excitement. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. For once in my life, I had been organised. As I left the room to compose myself. The thing about that which I felt was difficult is that we could tell when being scanned that there was something very seriously wrong. The results come in stages. And I know I can't hurry up the process of grieving. It took 20 minutes to push him out. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. While some parents understood the clinician's restraint - even when they had to wait an hour or more for a definite diagnosis - others disliked being kept in suspense and wanted to be told what the clinician was thinking. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. Several parents said they would have preferred being told something, even it was vague. And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. The doctor or midwife looking after you will let you know before you come. You could see her face, and the major aspect that was, that was the indication of what was wrong was the thickening at the back of the neck in this instance, which, when you're looking at a fetus is, you know, sort of half a centimetre thicker or not is completely immaterial to me, and would look like a completely normal neck, but from the point of view of the consultant was severely abnormal. It is as though our pain means we've earned the right to be taken more seriously. Any delay in receiving more information about the abnormality and its implications will be distressing for women and this should be acknowledged. It was the end of January, very end - about the 29th - I'd gone into, I'd gone into 5 months by then. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. 17/12/2020 17:13. You may need to have a full bladder when you come for the appointment. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. And the next day we went back to the hospital and we had another scan with a specialist, and he confirmed it was a condition called holoprosencephaly, which I'd never heard of any of these words before, they were just such long words. 26/09/2019 22:46. And they took me to another room and they explained that the baby had what they thought was ventriculomegaly or something. Another sick joke. The midwife was on the verge of tears and I felt responsible. These were said to be soft markers fo a range of trisomies, 2 of which were incompatible with life. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. or sort of light chat that we'd, we'd experienced before with previous scans. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. And nothing prepares you at all. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests. You're in and out and that was it. We would terminate the pregnancy. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. I couldn't work out what was taking so long and put it down to the doctor being young and inexperienced. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. We'd just spent some time away on a, on a summer holiday and come back expecting to have this scan and be told, 'All fine. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. My baby might have Down's syndrome. The milk came and stayed for what seemed like for ever. Instinctively, did it feel right? There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. All the hopes, dreams, and plans we made with our little bumps has been taken away from us. I went away and came back, and she couldn't get a good picture. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. And that was Monday afternoon. I give pregnant women dirty looks. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). In most cases the scan will show that your baby appears to be developing as expected but sometimes a condition is found or suspected. So that was it. We needed closure, to allow us to grieve properly. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really.

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